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Cast Out The Bondwoman And Her Son

“And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.” (Genesis 21:9-10)

In Genesis 21:6, we are told that Sarah laughed for joy at the birth of her son Isaac. The grace and gifts of God bring joy and laughter to the grateful hearts of those who believe God and gladly receive what He has given them. But in verse 9, we see a different kind of laughter. This laughter is the laughter of mockery; it is the laughter of disdain for what God has done in the lives of those who believe Him coming from the mouths of those who do not. It is the ridicule that comes from the heart which has only known the fruits of its own efforts and never the gracious fruits that come from God alone. This is the contempt which the man who lives in the flesh holds for the man who walks after the Spirit of God.

Before this particular incident, we have not been told very much about the nature and character of the young man Ishmael, whom Abraham became the father of by Hagar the servant woman. But this solitary verse truly speaks volumes. He complied with his father’s wishes and became circumcised a few years before this (Genesis 17:26) in accordance with the command of God. He went through the motions of religious observance, paying lip-service to the commandments of God, yet we see now that his heart was far from Him. The unrepentant, unregenerate man will very often perform the ceremonies and rituals which he feels make him appear to be religious; yet when he is confronted with the genuineness of God’s unmerited grace, he scoffs at it and mocks the one who receives it.

The man of the flesh seeks to come to God through his own efforts. He has no realization, no concept of the unearned grace which alone can serve as the force which makes a person acceptable to God. Ishmael looked upon the birth of Isaac as something foolish and disdainful much as those who reject Christ see the Cross as something foolish and meaningless (1 Corinthians 1:18). Both will revere and regard their own efforts and their own self-perceived merits as something of great importance, all the while mocking and ridiculing the grace of God which alone has the power to save.

Upon witnessing the spectacle that Ishmael is putting on during what should be a very joyous occasion, Sarah demands that Abraham send away the young man and his mother. This slave woman’s son shall not be heir with my son! she proclaims. So the enmity between Ishmael and Isaac, between Sarah and Hagar, precludes any accommodation between the two families. They simply cannot peacefully co-exist. The Apostle Paul will use this whole incident as an illustration of the incompatibility between living under Law and living under Grace (Galatians 4:21-31). These two are wholly irreconcilable as well. One must choose whether they will live under Law or live under Grace.

“Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” (Galatians 4:30)

In light of this clear imperative, it is puzzling that there are those who name the name of Christ who claim to live under Grace yet still attempt to fulfill the works of Law. Often, such claim that God provides Grace but still expects us to live under Law. Whether it be some observance of Old Testament dietary regulations or the keeping of Sabbath days, they claim that the Christian is in essence under a mixture of Law and Grace. But we see that Ishmael was cast out completely; he did not remain close by, he did not pay occasional visits to the family. Ishmael, representing the Law, was entirely put away once the son of Grace, the heir of promise came. There was no room for both within the household of Abraham, neither is there room for both in the household of God. The Law has served its purpose in the plans of God (Galatians 3:24-25), it holds no place anymore for those who have received the Son of Promise, Jesus Christ. The self-effort of ritual, religious motion, and attempted observance of Law will never make anyone acceptable to God, nor can it ever bring Salvation. Let us cast out the son of the bondwoman and place our faith firmly in God’s Grace, lest we, too, be found mocking.

To Jesus Christ goes all glory. In service to Him,

Loren

loren@answersfromthebook.org

[This post was originally published February 17, 2010]

All Scripture quotations in this post are taken from the King James Version (KJV) of the Holy Bible

[If you do not know the Lord Jesus Christ or you are not certain where you are headed when this life ends, I invite you to read the article “Am I Going To Heaven?“]

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29 responses

  1. Loren,

    Is is so sad to see so many not really trusting in God’s grace, even though they claim they do….. They stubbornly make many things a law unto themselves and expect everyone else to also make it a law in their lives….. They try to take God’s grace away from the hearts of God’s children with their accusations and self-righteousness.

    We need to lean wholly on God’s grace and promises.

    Margaret

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  2. Excellent observations!

    Romans 14 is a wonderful passage concerning how Christians are to approach practices which are debatable or matters of personal conviction. If someone wishes to place upon themselves a burden which is not commanded by Scripture, then that is a matter between them and God. When they proceed to attempt to place other Christians under the same self-imposed yoke, then they have crossed the line and are violating the clear direction of the Word of God.

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  3. The script-u-are is not plural and contrary scriptures.
    God doesn’t inspire such, but rather the script-u-are.
    Cast out the bondwoman and her son allegory means
    cast out the law and result of the law: sin and death.
    The mother of us all, Sion, heavenly Jerusalem, has
    a stumblingstone & a mediator. Neither are of God.
    So perhaps it also means cast out Mary and Jesus,
    if Jesus was “made under the law”, and “of woman”;
    and Jesus called his mother “Woman” twice in John,
    neither of such twice being meant as a compliment.
    Yet by such a law judgment, he condemned himself,
    as noted in Mt 15:11; Mk 7:20; Rom 2:1; Jam 1 & 3.
    Cloudy two Sons Jesus is not Sunny one Son Christ.
    Peace with God, eternal salvation, is through J–>C.
    So can we move on, from Jesus to Christ, if told
    that God was in Christ reconciling the world.

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  4. Thanks for visiting and taking the time to share your thoughts :)

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  5. Jesus said in the story of Lazarus ROLL AWAY THE STONE or take away the stone [ JOHN 11vs 41 ] the STONE is a picture of the LAW of Moses Jesus said take it away or roll it away were the dead was laid. THE LAW is about death{ THE MINSTERY OF DEATH } @ 2 corinthians 3 vs 7 it was written on stone. Stay in Grace the Minstery of Life.

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  6. Indeed, but the quest-i-on becomes this: is “Jesus” the Son of promise? Clarity says no, only Christ is; For “Jesus” and “Christ” are not the same, but “contrary things” which cannot coexist in peace. Example: Jesus was division, not peace; but Christ is peace, not division. Even John the Baptist asks the quest-i-on in Mt 11:3: art thou he, or do we look for another? So John 3:17 clarifies it: God did not send his Son to condemn (law). Jesus condemned: Mt 25:46. Christ would not condemn: John 8:11. John 3:17 further clarifies global salvation is “through him”, and it’s later on clarified salvation and peace is “through his name”. Paul says it’s “through Jesus Christ”, only in Christ. That’s why the gospel of Paul is not the gospel of Jesus = division, but “the gospel of Christ” = peace. Jesus said roll away the stone (law) to perceive grace. Christ said abolish law to have grace. Paul said to establish the heart “with grace”, not just “under grace”, the law has to be dead testator, non existent. For Jesus was head of children, but Christ is head of every “man”; So be no more children is to allegory say be no more condemning like Jesus, but Christ-like. So in Gal 4 it begins noting the heir is like a know not servant if childish; And the conclusion of Gal 4 makes no mention of children. For Rom 4:7,8 distinguishes child/man blessed. The child (law) has iniquities forgiven and sins covered; But man (grace) has no sin imputed to forgive or cover up. Strepho converted isn’t epistrepho converted; So when Peter said Jesus = Christ, he’s called Satan and prayed for to become epistrepho converted. My point: Jesus is not Christ. So let’s not roll away the stone (law) to observe resurrection, but abolish law to have grace that is graceful, mercy that is merciful, peace that is peaceful. Such is called the fulness of Christ (not the fulness of Jesus).

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  7. There were two trees in the the garden of eden Genesis 2 vs 9 the tree of life[ which is a picture of Jesus] and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil{which is a picture of the Law the do’s and don’ts} when God said cast out the bondwoman and her son he means what he says! stay in Grace, for the droctrine of grace is God’s rest

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  8. also remember there are TWO to cast out Hagar [Law] AND her son Ishmeal {arab=muslim Islamic Law or sharia law } Hagar and her son didn’t get along with Sarah{ GRACE } Jesus said i am the living water God gave HAGAR] some water later [ ITS UP TO U TO DRINK IT ]

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  9. Thanks, Robert, for sharing these insightful thoughts :)

    Interesting observation about Ishmael representing Islam/Sharia Law. While Ishmael was certainly the line through whom Muhammedism would ultimately emerge, I don’t know for sure that using him as a symbol of Islam and the need to “cast it out” in this allegory would be fitting. Relying on the Apostle Paul’s analogy in Galatians 3, Hagar represents Mosaic Law (Mt. Sinai), which was a legitimate system administered by God to the nation of Israel. Islam, however, is an entirely humanistic system with no Divine authority. I don’t know if the distinction is crucial, but it seems to me that the illustration is that the Mosaic system must necessarily be superceded by Grace (represented by Sarah; Mt. Zion) — the two, though both instituted by God, not able to be intermingled.

    The fact that the line of Ishmael (Islam) is entirely removed and cut-off from any part of God’s legitimate interaction with man under Mosaic Law and under Christ as spelled out in Gal. 4:30 would definitely seem to be a valid illustration and you might have a very good point here after all :)

    God bless you and thanks for visiting!

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  10. Also it wasn’t Hargar who mocked it was Ishmael {islam=arab } Genesis 21 vs 9. If u want to see the mocking words inside the dome of the rock there written on the ceiling inside the Dome of the rock it says God has No Only Begotton Son. This is Blasphemy and Antichrist. [You can Google it at God has no Only Begotton son written on dome of the Rock.]Nevertheless God had Mercy and Gave both of the them a drink of WATER. Jesus said I AM the living water[john7vs37,38,39,40, ] and Genesis 21 vs19. you have to drink it by Faith God[YHWH] won,t make u [ freewill ] It says God opened up Her eyes she saw a well of water{LIVING WATER}=Genesis 21 vs 19 Picture of JESUS[ JOHN 7 vs 37and 38]

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  11. Looking beyond the doublemindedness of Islam vs Christianity and wanting to be right to make others wrong; Let us notice peace is the absence of sides and sides wars, Abraham’s bosom was not merciful in Lk 16:19-31, nor was the Father of Jesus merciful in Mt 18:23-35. Furthermore Mary is called “Woman”, which is not a compliment, for Woman being deceived was in the transgression and Woman said a doubleminded “Amen, amen” to being both blessed + cursed = accursed (noted in Galatians 1:8,9). So when studied out, Mary and Jesus are like Hagar and Ishmael, and we should cast out both, as if casting out law and the result of the law: sin and death. Which things are an allegory: Gal 4… allegoric mystery to solve in time.

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  12. “Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed…” (1 Cor. 12:3a)

    “He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God…Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.” (Matt. 16:15-16, 20)

    “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.” (1 Cor 16:22)

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  13. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

    This simply means those who bear the “surname”, legal person, are of the bondswoman and will be cast out of the will. Those who bear the true christian name that which is inalienable and non-tranferable are born of the freewoman. For your Christian name is not to be attached to the “surname” which is not your “given name”. Your SURNAME is a name created and attached to the bond, “legal person” which is a FICTION. Those of you who beilieve you are “a person” will be the sons of the bondwoman. You are all born of the spirit before you were born sons of the freewoman “flesh” and before your parents signed and created the son of the bodwoman “your legal person”. Check your live birth registration!

    Now, as a man you can only give your labour and cannot conduct commerce, so they create the legal person. Thus, you can act in commerce all the time thinking you are this “legal fiction”. In “FACT” you are just a man who has a “christian name” and no occupation “surname” is to be attached to that. The surname is at war with the true creator. Do not be at war and bare arms. Jesus did not work for hire or bare arms, he was for pure love and charity. The STATE is an illusion and the only state that exits is mankind. no more no less. Know who you are, for the sons of the free women will be heir to the new jerusalem. “Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be the children of god”.

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  14. The Serpent told Jesus to turn the stones into bread Matt:4 which in fact means taking your nourishment from the 10 comandments – that the law! Satan tries to turn Jesus ministry back to Moses. Grace is the better way!

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  15. Hagar mother of Ishmael was an Egyptian, Egypt was a type[picture] of sin, by the law comes the knowledge of sin Romans 3 verse 20[You know the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which is the Law tree] God says don’t even touch it he told Eve [ Genisis 3 verse 3 ] I Don’t believe Eve was lying God told her not to touch it lest you Die. Ruth is found in Christ genealogy she came from Lot’s incestous daughters. The Mercy of God’s grace Jesus[life] is far far beter than the Law[Death]

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  16. Indeed, but notice in Jude 1:5 it clarifies them all saved out of Egypt also got destroyed afterward; So this temporal salvation of this plural God and Son doesn’t get to enter the kingdom of God, as even born again is only to see, and enter being yet another matter. So Christ abolished the law (Gen 2:17)of (plural and contrary) commandments in Genesis 2: 16 vs 17, as noted in Ephesians 2:15; For Don’t-eromony is just as deadly as Do-eteronomy, and Law2 of Law1 & Law2 in Matthew 22:36-40 is like Law1, which is law: sin: death. So Paul says in Romans 7:10 “another law” (“love thy neighbour”: Law2 in Mt 22:36-40) isn’t unto life, but death, which he found out the hard way, after a battle with evil concupiscence, for Mt 5:43 notes along with “love thy neighbour” comes “hate thine enemy”; And James 1:15 says law imputed sin, when “it is finished”, brings death, not life. Selah to those who think 2nd finished in John = win, for in a race 2nd finished = place, and such gives place to the d-evil (law), so Paul says neither give place (2nd finished) to the devil (by believing it is finished in John 19 ends sin). Details: http://www.godshew.org/HumanRace.htm

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  17. Count 50 days from Passover up to the feast of Shavuot[weeks] also called pentacost. Shavuot is the anniversary of giving the law at Mt. Sinai,and is considered to be the birthday of ancient Isreal. Following that event 3000 Isrealites died [moses two stone tablets ministry of death]. However the New Covenant in acts chapter 2 tells us of another Shavot/Pentecost/ Birthday, Holy spirit poured out 3000 saved [Grace Ministry of life 1400 years on the same day] Now what u do? Jesus said take away the stone[the law] in Lazuras John 11 verse 39-41 or cast out the bond woman[Law] and her son{Islamic Law]

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  18. Notice Eve foolish thought that the Law Tree Genesis 3 verse 6 was Good for food{sustain Life] and make you see{prophet] and make you wise[wisdom]{Apostle Paul called it the Ministry of Death 2 corinthinians 3 verse 7] You know the Devil tried that on Jesus turn the stone[Law] into BREAD[nourishment] matthew 4. the correct way is Jesus said[ I am] the living BREAD {tree of life grace] God didn’t curse Adam genesis 3 verse 17 he cursed the Ground the stuff we are made of and the devil eats dust[ genesis 3 verse14] the stuff we are made of {ground] Cain offered God the fruit of the ground{law keeping] you see it not about you{YOU YOU YOU law keeping self rightiousness} it about him Jesus Grace. Cain was a tiller of the ground[Cursed thing]Genesis 4 verse 2. If u find your Christian life not what u want it to be QUIET tilling the ground{law keeping] stay in grace. when u read the words of Jesus look for grace Jesus was born under the law to deliver us from the law Galatians 4 verse 4 and 5 My name is Robert God bless u all

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  19. misspelled Quit this is robert

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  20. Hargar[The Law] the Egyptian[Type of sin] Mother of Ishmael[Arab= Islam- islamic Law] was a Gift of Pharaoh{The Devil] and took Abraham[Christ] wife[Sarah] But God[YHWH] struck Pharaoh with Great Plagues. PLEASE READ [ 114- http://www.verdadesbiblicas.com.br/en/articles/6 It will sock you an eye opener

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  21. Hagar[the Law] the Egyptian [type of sin]was purebred Egyptian, gift of Pharaoh[ the Devil from the Law tree!] to Abraham, Ishmael was cross breeding of Abraham and Hargar cross breeding mixing Law and grace will get u kicked out of Abraham[Heaven] and when he kicked her out he didn’t go visit her and I am sure Sarah didn’t Love her. Hagar and crossbred Ishmael was a threat to Isaac[Grace {Laughter}].Ishmael mocking was the mocking of Death

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  22. Notice the Woman in the[ BEGINNING } Genesis 3 verse 1 and Notice the Woman in the[ END ] and the Devil is after her[ revelation 12 ] Jesus said I am the Beginning and the End! Notice the Devil Questions her about what God said about the Law Tree and he lies and says you shall not surley die if u eat from the Law Tree. Notice the woman in revelation 12 is Pregnant with the Word of God The Manchild Jesus [ the Grace of God tree of LIFE ] and the Law, Ministry of death has nothing to do with it and the devil is Mad as hell because Life from the tree of LIFE is in her. But something Happens the Manchild is caught up[ u know the rapture ] and the WOMAN is left behind why because she is eating too much from the wrong tree which is making her LABOR HARD. This is what I want u too see Notice the size difference do the Math (95 percent,woman 125 pounds baby 7 pound do the math[as soon as it was born ] Revelation12 verse 4. most will be left behind. Same with the foolish virgins when they departed from Grace trying to buy something that is not for sale like Simon the Sorcerer act 8 v 9-25 the Holy Ghost is a gift of grace and not the Law

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  23. I seemed to stumble upon this post and thought I would just make a quick comment. I noticed you said Ishmael was completely cast out and never paid visit. Gen 25:8,9 show that Ishmael was at his fathers burial with his brother. Also God casting him out was because he was unacceptable, why did God 1. Hear an answer his prayer Gen21:17
    2. Promise to make him a great nation Gen 21:18. 3. God was with him Gen 21:20. I am in no way saying the Muslim faith is the true faith, but there seem to be so many Christians that just bash on them. They are children of God also and He desires that we bring them to a knowledge of Christ. There is much study to be done on the subject of law and grace. The quote from galations is in reference tk the covenants if you look at the context and it was about abraham, not ishmael. The child with Hagar was a works based situation. God promised to give him a child, he decided to help by his works. Whereas the child from Sarai was by faith in God’s promise. Look at God’s character. And you will see that to say Christ died so that I can live however I want is a horrible characteristic to place upon God. http://www.tencommandmentfacts.com/ here is a site that might help. May God bring a spirit of love an joy into your heart and not anger and condemnation toward others who may be mistaken in their faith.

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  24. Indeed Brian, for Galatians 3:12 notes “the law is NOT OF FAITH”, and previously Romans 14:23 noted “whatsoever is NOT OF FAITH is sin”. So connecting these biblical dots law(not of faith) = sin(not of faith), as also noted in Rom 4:15 & 5:13; For ‘where’ and ‘when’ no law, ‘there’ and ‘then’ no sin. Allegorically Hagar = Mt Sinai = Law = Sin. So only when we cast out (both) the bondwoman AND her son (allegorically both the law AND result of the law: sin and death) will we have seeing faith (grace & truth), instead of blind faith (law & lie). Further study reveals the “bondwoman” in Gal 4:30 allegory isn’t even Hagar, but Mary (the handmaid of the LAW), and her son was Jesus, who said unto Mary: “Woman, what have to do with thee”. For woman, being deceived, was in the transgression. It’s like Paul said in 2Cor 6:14: “what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness”, as if allegory saying what fellowship hath grace and truth with law and lie. The answer is none, for law and grace are as opposite as death and life.

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  25. Thank you, Brian, for visiting and sharing your thoughts.

    The point of this post was not to contrast Christianity and Islam, but to contrast grace with law. Nor was I making any specific attack upon Islam, but was illustrating the difference between those who are spiritual and follow God and those who are fleshly and reject God. To insinuate that my tone was hostile toward those of the Muslim faith is both inaccurate and unfair. It appears that your primary purpose for commenting was to promote a certain website, and that’s fine, but I would strongly discourage you from putting words into the mouth of any writer on any forum in order to create a false context for linking to another website.

    I did remark that Ishmael did not “make occasional visits” to the family and that was to show that he was summarily cast out of the household. But Abraham was still his father as Isaac was still his brother. His showing up to his father’s “funeral” doesn’t really contradict the point I was making, does it?

    God did bestow certain blessings on Ishmael for the sake of Abraham, since he was also his son, but the inheritance belonged to Isaac alone. Isaac was the “seed of blessing” (Rom. 9:7-9) through whom the nation Israel and, ultimately, Christ would come.

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  26. Well I would like to apologize to those who I offended. And specifically to the author of this post. I was researching why Ishmael seems to be spoken of as a child in gen 21 when he would have to be at least 14-17 and had come to a long end of articles from Christians attacking Muslims and Muslims attacking Christians. When reading this i came to the portion that portrayed Ishmael’s laughing as coming from a legalistic heart, “It is the ridicule that comes from the heart which has only known the fruits of its own efforts and never the gracious fruits that come from God alone.”. I assumed, which is always a bad idea, that that was a reference to Islam, since there is no scriptural account of what the laughter was. I am sorry for allowing satan to place a connotation upon something that I did not know for sure. As far as the purpose of my comment beig I promote a site, I’m sorry if somehow it came across that way. My intent was to research as I stated and not even to comment. I was not intending to twist things to promote anything. In reading the post though there seemed to be so much discussion about the law, which I am assuming, again poor idea, was the law of ten commandments, being done away with. I felt a burden to just present a site that could show from scripture another light on the topic. There are so many scriptures that were mentioned in contrast to the law, I just wanted to let the whole weight of scripture be laid out. I fully understand salvation is not and never has been based on the law. Everyone from Adam on has been saved by grace trough faith in the atoning blood of Christ, te lamb slain from the foundation. Rev 13:8. Christ was, in type, the lamb that was slain to provide coverings for our first parents when they sought to cover, or rectify, themselves from their sin. The 10 commandment law was given by Christ (christ said no man has seen the father but the Son declares Him, and john said no one has seen God, yet in the account in exodus moses, aaron and 70 elders saw God that gave the commandments, so had to be Christ) as a standard of righteousness for judgment, but not to ever make on righteous. If there is no law, what standard can we be judged against? Rev 22:12 says our reward will be based on our works. It’s not saying earned, but our faith will be seen by our works as James 2 illustrates. The verse in Romans 5:13 shows that sin is not accounted, imputed, when their is no law. Because 1 John 3:4 says sin is the transgression of the law (kjv). Romans 6:16 is such a pointed verse, but the wording is somewhat strange. Obedience leading to righteousness is taken in our language as reward for action, but Paul is saying there are only 2 sides, obedience to God’s word or not. ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God. When Paul wrote that there was no new testament. 1 John 2:3-6 show us we should walk as He did. He fully obeyed Gods word, BY the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 7 describes this battle but in verse 14 Paul says the law is spiritual, but he is carnal. In his mind he serves the law of God, but his flesh the law of sin verse 25. But there is no condemnation them in Christ Jesus. When we accept Him in our lives and seek to live as He calls us, we are seen as righteous in His sight, by the covering of His Son. PRAISE GOD! Christ didn’t come to free us to live however we want and disregard His standard. He came to free us FROM our sins Matt 1:21. E-communication is very poor medium because the tones and emotions cannot be heard and can be interpreted however the reader hears them, thus the reason for my original message, but I am replying in love, not a desire to prove myself right or anyone wrong. I just wanted to present God’s character as unchanging and love. It would be unfair of God if we got to heaven and saw Elijah an asked him how he got there and he said he kept the law perfect, then asking us we replied, I didn’t have to do anything, I lived my life however I wanted cuz Jesus paid my way. Jesus paid everyone’s way. There is only one way in, but that doesn’t discount God’s desire for us I be holy and live to His will and standard. Again I am sorry for going on. I hope this is not received as offensive. I desire not to argue and thank you for replying and pointing out my sin. Again I ask you forgive my transgression in attacking your charactor and motives. Much love in Christ.

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  27. Wow, thank you, Brian :)

    “E-communication is very poor medium because the tones and emotions cannot be heard and can be interpreted however the reader hears them”

    Tell me about it! I can’t begin to tell you how many times my writings have been utterly and completely misinterpreted and misunderstood. Every reader brings their own background, biases, preferences, and personality to the table whenever they read something and it never ceases to amaze me what “message” some folks bring away from my posts. It can be very frustrating to be attacked for something that has been misinterpreted and that I never intended to convey. Believe me, there has been no shortage of individuals eager to set me straight by correcting my “errors”! To be honest, I can’t help but have a lot of the more vitriolic comments in the back of my mind sometimes whenever I read comments from new contributors. This certainly isn’t the first time I have misread someones intentions and doubtlessly responded in an unnecessarily harsh manner. For that I, too, apologize to you, sir.

    After carefully reading through both of your comments, it is apparent to me now that you are indeed sincere and have the best intentions at heart and I assure you that I sincerely appreciate the sharing of such insights. Please understand that a great many of the people I interact with on this forum are not so candid with their motives. I don’t really mind folks asking legitimate questions for clarification or even showing me where they believe I may have said something in error. But often times people “comment” or ask questions with a hidden agenda as they seek to disseminate false doctrines and heretical misinterpretations of Scripture. Seldom do they readily identify the background which they are coming from nor do they mention the specific cultic doctrines that have influenced them, so I am left to try to discern what the real purpose is behind what they are saying. Normally these folks are rather obvious because they are very hostile and typically are peddling a specific orgasnization’s websites and materials. I initially felt that you were likely in that category and I am sorry that I misread your motives.

    Thank you again for investing the time in sharing your thoughts and reading mine. May the Lord bless you in your study of His Holy Word :)

    Loren

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  28. Ishmael is looked upon as the one who founded Islam, the founder was Mohammed. When Abraham died, Ishmael was 89 and Issac was 75. At the burial of Abraham, both brothers showed the spirit of Matthew 18:35. Acts 2:11, shows there are a remnant from this forgiveness. Thus the complete story from Scripture – http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=W6WL7LNX

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